FOREIGN SECRETARY URGES SYRIA TO WITHDRAW TROOPS FROM LEBANON

EDITED TRANSCRIPT OF AN INTERVIEW GIVEN BY FOREIGN SECRETARY, JACK STRAW, FOR BBC RADIO 4, FRIDAY 4 MARCH 2005

INTERVIEWER:
A fortnight ago the former Lebanese Prime Minister, Rafiq Hariri, was murdered. Many Lebanese blamed the Syrians, and the people of Lebanon have risen in protest, not taking to the gun this time but to the streets; a velvet revolution in the Middle East, it’s an extraordinary notion, and now Syria has been told by two of its closest allies, Russia and Saudi Arabia, to get out of Lebanon. Where might all this lead?

The Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw, is on the line. Do you have the answer to that Mr Straw?

FOREIGN SECRETARY:
Not quite but I think that it will lead to real democracy in Lebanon in the, you can only have a democracy if the Government, which is elected, has complete control over the territory of that country, and that isn’t the case in Lebanon. You’re right to say that Syria played an important part in resolving the terrible civil war in the 1970’s and 1980’s but what is also the case is, under the agreement that ended that civil war, the Taif Agreement, the Syrian forces, I’m quoting directly, were expected thankfully to assist the forces of the legitimate Lebanese Government to spread the authority of the state of Lebanon within a set period of no more than two years. That of course hasn’t happened and, although the Syrians will say, well they, they’ve been there with the consent of the Lebanese Government, they’ve also been ventriloquising the Lebanese Government and they have exerted their own authority over, directly over significant parts of the territory of Lebanon and indirectly over the whole Government of the Lebanon. That’s simply not acceptable these days, and I think, yes indeed, we are seeing what some people could describe as a, another velvet revolution. It’s very exciting that these developments are taking place in the Middle East, which many people thought was going to be the last area in the world to accept democracy.

INTERVIEWER:
But Syria has to get out of Lebanon. Do you think it will?

FOREIGN SECRETARY:
It’s got to. It’s very clear. That was the call by the United Nations Security Council in Resolution 1559 last September. Now every one of its neighbours is saying, you’ve got to leave, and this includes very strong representations, as you’ve just mentioned, by Saudi Arabia and Russia.

So Syria really does face a strategic choice, which it has to take. It may be tough for it. They have anxieties, which most people in the region think are completely exaggerated, that if they do pull their forces out of the Lebanon they will face the possibility of invasion by Israel, which most people, most Arabs in the region think is complete nonsense, but they have got this very clear strategic choice. If they pull their forces out, they’ve got to do it in a sensible, swift but phased way, then they can come back in to the fold of the international community. If they don’t they really will be treated as a pariah, not just by the West but by most of their Arab neighbours.

INTERVIEWER:
And what would the United States’ reaction be to that, if they do not pull their forces out, because there is a bit of pressure here, time pressure isn’t there. There, there’s supposed to be elections, as I understand it, in, in Lebanon in May?

FOREIGN SECRETARY:
Well one of the extraordinary ironies about the way Syria has behaved is that, after a period of … very considerable controversy and actually diplomatic conflict between the United States and France, it has taken Syria to bring the United States and France completely back together again. 1559 was a joint US, French, Security Council resolution, which we backed, and so France and the United States have been working extremely closely on this. It’s another reason why Syria has got to stop and think.

They’ve performed a feat one or two of us thought was likely to take a very long time, as I say, get the United States and France back together as operational partners on the international scene, and very welcome it is too. So the United States are in the same position as France and the European Union on this, which is using diplomatic pressure, which is increasing, political pressure from the neighbours and, above all, witnessing and welcoming very strong and powerful democratic pressure from within the Lebanon for this withdrawal to take place.

INTERVIEWER:
Only diplomatic pressure on the table?

FOREIGN SECRETARY:
Yes. There is, I promise you, there is absolutely no suggestion of military action, which is obviously in your mind and a perfectly legitimate question. Absolutely none, and, and indeed we’ve already seen it working because Syria for a very long time had the Lebanon as a fiefdom and for a variety of reasons other in the region accepted that as a status quo. Well that’s changed. The assassination of former Prime Minister Hariri has unleashed whole set of movements which Syria, I think, will find unstoppable, and if they say they care about their strategic position, what authority they have left, they’ve got to shift.

INTERVIEWER:
But, as you say, these things are quite difficult to predict and if, for reasons of their own, possibly fear of Israel or whatever it may be, they say, no, we’re going to hang on in there and they have done so for a very long time now, might not Washington be tempted to say, well, you know, we we’ve got elections in Iraq now...let’s see if we can’t get them in Syria.

FOREIGN SECRETARY:
No, I don’t think they will, I mean I’m pretty clear about that, and let me say, Syria has had a fig leaf for a long time by claiming that there are other parts of the Taif Agreement, which I mentioned, which allowed for the possibility of Syrian troops to stay within the Lebanon with the consent of the Lebanese Government and people. That’s been their fig leaf though of course they had to ensure the fig leaf stayed up by ventriloquising the Lebanese Government. That fig leaf is now going, it’s departing, so they lack any legitimate claims that this isn’t other than a very straightforward army of occupation without the consent of the Lebanese people.

…what has happened is absolutely fascinating, since you mention Iraq, I was very struck yesterday by a comment by Walid Jumblatt, the Lebanese Druze Leader, who’s quoted in The Times newspaper as saying he’s always been very anti American and opposed the invasion of Iraq, he said, strange for me to say it but the process of change has started because of the American invasion of Iraq, and he then went on to say, I was cynical about Iraq but when I saw the Iraqi people voting three weeks ago, eight million of them, it was a start of a new Arab world.

INTERVIEWER:
But he’s also the man who said the death of every American soldier is to be celebrated...or something like that.

FOREIGN SECRETARY:
…indeed he did, and it’s the very fact that he and quite a number of other critics, very powerful critics of America, and indeed of the military action that we took, in respect of Iraq, are now saying, well, whether or not this is the intended or unintended consequence of what happened in Iraq, it is very interesting that, seeing eight and a half million people in Iraq voting freely and voluntarily, notwithstanding the efforts of terrorist organisations in that country to stop them, is something which has spread right round the Arab region, and others are taking notice.

And, I mean there are plenty of other, I mean, trends involved in this, one of which, as again this report makes clear, is the, the paradoxical impact of al-Jazeera Television, which has given the West, and the United States and the United Kingdom, one very substantial kicking, but it’s a very popular programme. It goes literally over the heads of the old authoritarian leaders and on al-Jazeera people can see Iraqis voting. They can also see, let me say, Palestinians voting. And it was always my view that as we moved to elections in, in Palestine that would have a ripple effect across the Arab world. They’ve also seen Afghans voting and people in other countries in the Arab world who’ve been told there are very good reasons why they shouldn’t have a proper vote have a look at this and say, hang on a second, I think I want a share of that freedom which my brothers and sisters across the Arab world are now enjoying.

INTERVIEWER:
If, at any stage, at any point, somebody in Washington says, look maybe things aren’t moving the way they ought to let’s just think about some military action, the position of the British Government would be to say, absolutely no way, we won’t wear that?

FOREIGN SECRETARY:
…let me also say that (indistinct) international consensus here any decision in respect of that would have explicitly to be authorised by the United Nations Security Council, and the Security Council has been working very well and in a consensual way. I don’t myself believe for a second there’ll be external military action. There are already some United Nations peacekeeping forces in the South of Lebanon. It is possible that as part of a phased withdrawal from the Lebanon by Syria, (indistinct) have to be swift but obviously phased so you don’t leave a mess, there could be some more peacekeeping troops, I mean that has been talked about but in an informal not a formal way, but I do provide you with the reassurance you’re seeking I think.

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